Friday, 16 April 2010

God

I think this is the time I talk about my belief. This was prompted by a discussion I'm having at this very moment with one of my very best friends, Gabi.
I'll keep her opinions and views out of this because it's not my place to say.

Here's something to get me started
  1. I do not belong to or believe or follow any established religion
  2. I do not believe in any intelligent being responsible for the creation of humankind/the world, etc.
  3. I do not believe there to be any intelligent being watching over us and/or judging us
  4. I won't completely reject anything, but I will not embrace it either

  1. The reason for this is that all religion is written by man. It's organised, and the rules, theories, beliefs are 99% man made, reflecting the beliefs and desires of man hundreds and thousands of years ago. One man's fries are another man's death. Or something like that. Meaning that views change from person to person, and generation to generation. Idiotic prejudices don't apply anymore, and anyone who believes of embraces any organised religion either does it as a defense mechanism, or is a fucking idiot. Now, I have friends who are religious, very religious in fact, but they know enought to keep it the fuck out of around me. One of the things I despise most is organised religion. It can make people do the most inhumane things ever heard of.  The theories found in the bible, ku'ran, etc. are all conflicting and innaplicable to modern life. I'm going to leave this at this, because if I get too into it, this will never end.
  2. So we've heard lots of theories as to why there would be no intelligent being in charge of creating human kind. Biggest contradiction to this: FUCKING EVOLUTIONARY THEORY. I'm not going to elaborate on this, because honestly if there's anyone out there who has been taught the evolutionary theory and still refuses to accept it as at least the basis of the truth is pretty stupid. But now now, I don't want to offend anyone.
  3. This is simply because all the bad shit going on. War, disease, natural disaster, violation, etcetc. If all of this was against "God's" law, then why would it be possible? Don't answer that. I'm getting kind of tired now, explaining all of this. Now on to number 4
  4. Now, I say that I do not believe in god, and I do not believe in any organised religion, or any unproven theory created by man. That doesn't mean though, that I reject everything. For example, I could very easily consider a universal energy that encompasses all living and possibly nonliving things, which would be like the origin of everything. But that doens't make it intelligent or conscious. I can believe that there is something superior to mankind, easily. I don't think that whatever that is is watching over us or even gives a flying shit about us.
Same goes for angels, demons, etc. The things I do wholeheartedly believe in are

  • Love
  • Mankind (People, duh)
  • Nature
  • Free will, and our power to do anything
  • Knowledge
  • Healing through energy (Reiki, etc.).
  • Science, in general. (That which is unproven shall remain untrue until it is proven). Or at least makes a lot of sense.

Free will is a huge thing, because it's not only something I believe exists somewhere, but it's something that we all need. When I say free will I don't mean free to go kill some guy, or drop acid in a dumpster. I mean being able to do anything one wants to do, and not feeling guilt or being punished OR REWARDED for it. Obviously it's not good for say, killing people and rape and violence and all that, but that also depends on where you're looking at.
A rapist might not consider rape as being bad.

So how did I get from religion to rape? Beats me.
I might elaborate sometime, but right now, I'm beat. :) Have a happy Friday guys.

11 comments:

  1. Evolution is more than the answer to the origin of species though. It also implies that this shit-hole we're living in is the best possible world we can get. Capitalism is the truest practice of 'survival of the fittest'. Poor people are poor and living shit lives because genetically they're inferior and should be eliminated, as it is only the natural process.

    Not gonna judge here either but I can see why some people refuse to believe in it. Also note that creationism isn't hte only alternative.

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  2. Evolution does not imply this shit hole we're living in is the best possible world we can get. Evolution has not stopped, it keeps on going and we don't know what the best we can get is. Neither will our children, or even their children.
    There might be something else out there that is far better than we have as well, something we're unaware of I mean, this whole universe is fucking huge. I'll be damned if somewhere out there there isn't something at least remotely alike to what we have. There as well it won't have been the end of it. Thing is, everything responds to it's surroundings, surroundings change=change occurs -> change over time -> evolution. As long as surroundings change we're gonna keep on changing. Now this is me off on a tangent.

    Capitalism is not the truest practise of "survival of the fittest" as money does not guarantee your survival. Poor people are poor not due to inferior genes but due to either things that happen to them, or by their own actions. Shit happens, and it doesn't make you inferior to someone just because it does. Furthermore today's capitalist society definitely doesn't guarantee "survival" to those who are wealthy. Money guarantees commodity. It guarantees luxury and comfort. You stick a poor person and rich person of equal intelligence and with equal equipment into a jungle, and the rich person might actually be worse off, though not always. What guarantees survival now is exactly what guaranteed it back in the day- smarts, practicality, creativity and luck. In today's society almost anyone can rise up by means of using their head (and I don't mean being good in math or French kind of smarts), being practical, and being creative. Maybe not from the gutter to the penthouse but from the gutter to the mid floor, or mid floor to the pent house.
    And of course luck. But luck is random.

    Of course creationism is not the only alternative, but it is the most widely accepted within the organised religions. When I say organised religion I usally use examples from Christianity, Islam and Judaism, as well as Hinduism.
    However when I exclaim my opinion on organised religion, I do mean ALL organised religion, whether they believe in one or multiple gods.

    Anyway, I don't think this all makes any sense now.

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  4. Firstly Capitalism implies this.

    Best possible world/society we humans can get, as for this instant, it is.

    Genetically superior ->intelligent -> rich

    Inferior -> stupid -> stupid action eg.fails school -> poor

    Most poor people aren't poor because they had shit luck. As the rich and the poor are not usually randomly thrown into jungles the rich do survive better. Homelessed are more likely to die on the street in cold nights, poor people more likely to become homeless if being sacked etc.

    richer -> better mediacal care, safer cars, etc etc.

    -> people are not equal. Smarter men are more worthy of survivival.
    --
    Thinking about it as most people can now choose what they believe, hatin' on organised religion = treating believers' personal judgement(hence free will) with disdain.

    But you believe in free will.
    And free will is always based on the principals of respect.
    --
    Respecting each other's opinions results in nothing ever being truely 'correct'.
    Consider joining the debate society yo, if there'd ever be another meeting that is.

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  5. (Henry I had no idea that was you until now).

    But you're totally right (ignoring capitalist point here since I can't actually prove you wrong), hating on organised religion is limiting a certain type of free will.
    HOWEVER if a 42 year old man came up to me or you or anyone, and told us all about a magical pink alligator singing old broadway songs on top of a giant mushroom, who told him to prance around with a pink umbrella in the shape of a mushroom, we'd all be just a little concerned as to whether this guy should be expressing his free will so... freely.
    Same concept.

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  6. Except that religions are usually based upon moral values, and the stories are treated more less like metaphors.

    Religions = people with similar moral values teaming up, not retards believing in random fairy tales for no reason.

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  7. But don't you think that as time goes on the morals should stay with us but the fairytales should be declared as fake and gay?
    Because it's not just the morals they support, and you know that as much as I do.

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  8. Religions are not based on moral views, holy christ... that is retarded.

    Religions each hold different moral views, there is no argument there and those moral views are seen as the path to living in the way that religion inspires. But that is NOT what religion is.

    Note how that for in Christianity for an example, you can live by all of the Christian moral views and yet NOT BE A CHRISTIAN, and burn in hell for eternity. The crux of Christianity is believing the Lord Jesus Christ is the son of God and died for your sins. THAT IS what religion is about, so essentially yes it is about people and their imaginary friends. That is fact, try retorting fact.

    Secondly I would like to state that demographics argue against your suggestion of natural selection in concerns with the poor. Note how most of the poor in countries even where they are the minority, are black. This is clearly evident of a certain factor. Now you have two options out here, either you can admit you're a racist and say blacks are simply genetically dumber than whites, or you can say that they were oppressed for centuries and only recently were given the same opportunity as whites, and therefor their educational history is at a disadvantage because of oppression. Essentially making your argument null. I shall also add that while the idea is that the stronger will find a way to survive, this is often the case with blacks turning to theft or drug sales in order to survive due to the oppressive nature of the world and their lack of opportunity, through a generally racist society. Now some of these people choose not to sling crack or rob because they find it morally wrong, does this make them less smart?

    PS: I know this was your debate Kristiina, but I couldn't resist.

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  9. (A challenger appears aye, don't think I'd manage, but let's give this a try.)
    --
    You are right that the stories would fade away, Christian population is decreasing. Most Christians are not taking the stories as serious as they did 60 years ago. Everyone came to accept that the Earth isn't the center of the universe, this would continue to happen. I would imagine this occurs with the other religions as well.

    However there's no need to force this process on a personal scale. The key word is that they WOULD fade away, but saying that they SHOULD is a bit eh,

    'You believe in god? That's retarded.'

    Besides, 'arty hipsters' like us (lol) should easily comprehend (and appreciate perhaps )how people tend to seek refuge through imagination. Can't deny this, can't say it's wrong, it's what make us people.

    --
    Essentially religions are about the moral value, let me elaborate. If Jesus advocated murder and thief there would have been no Christianity. It would've also been harder to believe that such a guy was the son of God.

    ->Most people turn Christian because they see Christians doing good things and living good lives with rich spirituality.(Supposingly comming with the package of moral values.) Fear for the fire of hell is not their primary concern.

    Growing up in a Christian family and knowing many Christians, I've observed so at least.

    To make this a proper debate I even found survey results lol, take a look. (Note that all the survey takers were supposingly christians)
    http://multivote.sparklit.com/poll.spark/656

    77% of the suvey taker believe it's the good behaviour that get them the ticket. Not the fact that they are baptised.

    76% belive people get second chances in hell.

    Which implies that good behavious(moral values) > believing in Christ. Despite what the church says this seem to be what people believe, which really only truely matters.

    Can't retort a survey ah.
    --
    Regarding the poor, I probably didn't get my point across clear enough, which caused confusion.

    But yes, the theory of evolution indirectly justify racism, that blacks are genetically inferior. White invented big boats and guns before them, therefore had the right to invade their countries and made them slaves. <-the reason why they had been thus supressed for all these years.

    As I'm no racist this is obviouslly out of the question wrong. Whites shouldn't have done so. Yet evolution tells us it's bound to happen because natural selection. That's not cool man.

    I'm in no position to make such judgement as to what is smart, but neither was Darwin.
    --
    Didn't mention blacks in the previous post because, well, always exception, eg Black president.

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  10. Incorrect. You see a survey is null in this case until you know those people's lifestyles. I say this because it is the social norm for one to claim he is a Christian in Western civilization. The sad thing is only very few are true Christians, and they don't earn the right to give an opinion on a faith they only follow half-assed.

    I can believe in 1 or 2 of Buddhisms core beliefs, call myself a Buddhist but that doesn't mean I really am.

    Majority of so-called Christians do not attend church and hold no 'relationship' with Jesus, which if you ask a real Christian is a very important thing. Calling yourself a Christian in Western culture is the way to be socially accepted. Note how Atheists have always been shunned in the eyes of Christians (and even murdered for it in the past, in masses). And that survey just proves this fact, by showing how ignorant the normal so-called Christian person is in regards to the religion they claim.

    One can argue the survey, quite easily too. I bring out evidence A. The Bible, this is the corner stone of the Christian faith and the only real collection of majority of the events which are key in the Christian faith, in fact there are a few incidents which are documented in another text, the Babylonian Scrolls, though stories in here contradict the bible, even though the bible has probably taken some of the stories from this text and manipulated it.

    I need not point out the obvious fact that it is wishful thinking for people to think "I just need to be good and I get into heaven", it's a very lovely way to get what you want without having to deal with the hard parts of being Christian. And since people seek religion for validity on their mortality and some hope for an afterlife, it just supports the fact even more that the survey is 'fake' Christians who believe they can skate on by with their sinful nature just as long as they don't break any commandments, or never go to church or never pray... But still be legiable for heaven.

    Point being as a Christian you need to follow the bible, or else you're basing your entire faith on absolutely nothing and your religion is as valid as the magical teapot in space.

    And with that said, one can study the bible to see how believing that the lord Jesus Christ is our savior is the core of Christianity. And those who disagree and think it's about the morals are not real Christians at all.

    I should note that I grew up as a Christian, for 18 years of my life, 15 of those spend in Church. I am well aware of the teachings of the lord and the fundamental elements of being a proper Christian according to the bible. And I also live in a very Christian town, though it's easy for me to see the real Christians from those who just like to, without thought call themselves Christians.

    Regarding evolution, you have a lot of holes in your argument. I can basically beat you with one line- "Darwinism isn't the only theory of evolution.". There are numerous theories, all of which propose slightly different ideals. So to state all evolutionary theories support natural selection is just not true.

    Evolution is proven, this is science with clear cut evidence. One cannot argue evolution when you are presented with the facts, unless one uses lines like "it's a trick by god to separate the true believers".

    In regards to natural selection, it's a dangerous concept and the theory needs more shaping if you ask me. As essentially the professor with a 180 IQ, sitting at home gets murdered by a street thug. Does that make the professor less worthy of existence because he didn't defend himself, or make him less evolved.

    With natural selection I think it is something that can only be used in the very beginning of an evolutionary process, or one outside of human living. It can be argued, but I think I have already shown the holes in that theory in modern society.

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  11. Belief is a very personal matter, thus is one's relationship with God. I don't see how anyone has the authority to define what being a trve Christian means, not even those who had been in church for 15 years.

    Been to church for 7 years here(you win there lol), perhaps I'm one of those half-assed believer you described. I thought the concept of how one being can sacrifice himself for the goods of an entire race was awesome. So I believed in Christ’s teachings, and how God helps us out, when he feels like it. When I die I either go to heaven, or to hell for my poor belief, or decompose because this isn’t true. Don’t make much difference for me now. And I took every single one of those stories as metaphors.

    And this is as far as Christianity go for me, well gone, since I got loose and stopped caring as much, like your regular stupid teenager. But I did consider myself a Christian then and no one could tell me I wasn’t. And being that sort of a Christian felt quite alright.

    And it did give me some sort of spiritual comfort.
    As a living person to another, how do you judge me.

    Not being personal , merely using my experience as a case.
    I would like to believe I wasn’t stupid.
    --
    But natural selection is a popular theory and is taught in highschool biology, believed by most people. The same with your Christian case though, most people(me and you for instance, correct me if you're an expert on this too) don't know much about evolutionary theories. They choose to believe it because they were taught so, apparently there is enough evidence and it seemed to make more sense than creationism.

    "But there are fussiles and shit, and chimps and us have very similar genes!"

    Don't see how dilettantes in one faith are superior to dilettantes in another faith. Yet they think they are.

    But as this really developed from a debate into a discussion, we might have an agreement here. Theories of Evolution always need mending.

    Hence nothing wrong with how people tend to seek alternatives.
    <-my original argument right there.
    --
    Thug shooting professor is an exceptional case again, as averagely thugs are more likely to shoot each other, hence more likely to die young.

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